033 - Tim's 6 Favorite Utility Stocks And Why 100s Of Others Didn't Make The Cut

Don't make the mistake of passing up on Utility stocks. Utilities aren't flashy but they're essential and more secure than most other sectors, which makes them a great portfolio hedge during recessions. 

It may look like Utilities have smaller dividend yields, but they increase their dividends year after year. That means the longer you hold them the higher your actual yield becomes. 

Slow and steady is usually considered boring, but that's how you win the game of investing.

What Tim looks for when he's combing Utility stocks

• Yield
• P/E vs industry
• Profit margin 
• 5 year dividend growth
• Revenue growth
• Payout ratio 

The tickers we discussed in this episode

• NEE (electric) and NEP (renewable energy) 
• BIP (electrical and natural gas) and BEP *** BIP is currently overvalued and BEP has a negative P/E. These are better Watchlist candidates then buys right now. 
• UGI - natural gas
• VZ - telecom but considered a utility stock
• PBR oil and gas
• BKH electric

A few other mentions

• DUK
• NFG 

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**DISCLAIMER**
Ticker metrics change as markets and companies change, so always do your own research. The content in this podcast is based on personal experience and is for educational purposes, not financial advice. See full disclaimer here.

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Transcript

Welcome to roaming returns a podcast about generating a passive income through investing so that you don't have to wait till retirement to live your passions In today's episode, we're gonna go over Tim's top six utility stocks because every portfolio should have some utilities in it These babies aren't flashy, but they sure as heck grow their dividends year over year and what's nothing like about that So tune in and we'll show you where to get started All right, guys, we are back for the utilities episode.
Oh my god. It's gonna be so boring. So just FYI I'm gonna try to spice it up.
I might have to bring up Tim's trouser snake comments that we're going on. But there's a trouser snake I don't even understand All right, guys, uh utilities are You'll see as we go through this. They don't have the most extravagant yields But how they make up for that is with dividend growth and you'll see the numbers and they're just fantastic Like I think every portfolio should have at least two maybe three maybe four utilities in it I don't know like the exact number.
I'm kind of still trying to figure that out. But didn't you say there's like subsectors? There are like we got a electric clean energy telecom electric Natural gas clean energy propane and then an oil one just for giggles the oil actually utility Technically oil gas one. Yeah, so you said electric twice and you said clean energy twice Well both these here they have like they have the main company.
I'll explain it And I'll try to keep it up, okay The first one not in the e e. Oh Oh my god, you and your freaking wild pony noises It's the largest electrical company in the United States they are in Florida they have like they pretty much just run the state of Florida and And the reason their numbers keep going up and up and up is because everybody retires there for some unknown reason But that's where they go. It only yields three point zero six percent But it has 27 years of dividend growth and it's currently about thirty two to thirty five percent undervalued So if you get in you're gonna get the price appreciation I think every one of these is undervalued because utilities just got stomped last year. So it's thirty two percent undervalued It's sixteen point one four PE The average for electrical is twenty point four one it boasts boasts a 24.21 profit margin.
It has a 48.12 percent payout ratio, which is awesome That means they can afford more dividend increases, which is evident by the 27 years of dividend growth. It has eight point four five year revenue and growth that means in the last last five years the average eight point four percent growth and it has a Thirty three percent five-year dividend growth. So that means if you invested five years ago You're already a third of the way to your initial your initial investment Okay.
So my question was what exactly killed utilities last year? You said they did They buy they like all these companies have just outlandish amounts of debts because they make so much revenue and they're like pretty much backed by the government's but whether it be a local government state government or the federal government so they can get all the Debt because like I'm pretty sure if it's the fan they can get bailed out like the banks So they're in like a special sector Nice nice now We hold me in the retirement account for her mom because it's like it's volatility is next to none and it just slowly grows we actually hold its sister They spun off another company that takes care of their clean energy like their solar and their wind and all that nonsense Like spin-off TV shows better call Saul. Yeah, it's called any P and I think they're awesome, but that's just me They have a twelve point zero two percent yield. So they have a ridiculously high yield for your utility And we picked this one up fairly recently and Tim saw it.
Apparently at a really good buy and then it it's 11 year 11 year Dividend growth, but it only came out 11 years ago So it literally has raised its dividend every year that it's been in existence. How far under value is this one 34%? So we even got that little bit of a or big of a boost You said it was one of our bigger gainers last year. It was holy crap, and it's still that far under value.
Yes It's vastly undervalued That one has my vote six point eight per five six point eight five percent profit margin So it doesn't have a lot of extra money coming in. Although it does have a 30% five-year revenue Revenue growth, so that's good. And it has a 46 percent five-year dividend growth.
So it's been growing its dividend quite significantly Through the last five years its payout rate is 250 percent. So that is a red flag. So Oh, I Retract my has my vote How the hell does that work? I have no idea.
Okay, but again bailout reliance But this company here is not gonna like did the parent company knee is not gonna let an NEP go under so they'll actually if They've run the problems. They'll give them money. So I'm not too concerned about the high payout, right? All right, how much is the portfolios on that one? Oh 3% Okay, so that's not terrible. So those that I count those as one because it literally is a company and then it's spun off into it like it It's the same company. It just has a clean energy side. There's another one right here I'll just go I'll do the second one, even though it's not my second pick BIP, it's an electrical and natural gas.
It has a 5.07 yield with 14 year dividend growth history it is 31 percent undervalued with 8.8 percent profit margin a 12% five-year dividend growth 54% five-year revenue growth and it had only has a 16% payout ratio. So that 5.07 percent is 16% payout ratio. Yeah, what the heck is that about? Yeah, that's like that 200 versus 16 Yeah, I feel like I'm in taking crazy pills crazy pills.
So That one's a really good Potential investment the only problem is it's PE is like way over the industry average like it's P He's 43 and the industry average is 16. Oh, yeah, it could be overvalued, but it's actually undervalued if you go like the Price to book and the price to sales. So it depends what metric you use So how confident are you? These are all hard to compare for from a PE perspective, right because it's like sub niches within the utilities Or am I misinterpreting that I'm pretty confident and like this one because like any P It's a 18% a 18 PE and the industry average for clean energy is like 45 So that one makes sense.
Let's go back to BIP a bit bit bit Bippity boppity boo. I Think I think it's overvalued I I'm actually if it like the metric that I use in my assessment is PE So that won't be curious to watch to see what the heck it does But I mean everything else you said it's it's good other than that one thing Yeah, and then it's it spun off a clean energy Segment called BEP There's a four five point two four percent yield with 12 years of dividend growth 23% undervalued but the problem with this one why we don't actually have it is it has a negative 42 PE. So that means a Wait, how do you have a negative PE? means you're like you how they determine the PE is by your price per earnings so like you take the price of the BEP and You divide it by its earnings per share.
So you're getting a negative out of that. Holy crap. That is a red flag So that's a huge red flag for me.
It only has eight point seven percent profit margin or percent five-year dividend growth 13% five-year revenue growth and it only has a 22% payout rate Well, I would expect so with negative frickin earnings, right? Yeah I think they're either going to cut the dividend or do away with the dividend or do the cut there and figure something that Negative 42 is a huge red flag. I've actually only seen that like three times Okay, so why is that one on the list or is that just because it's a sector spin-off of this one? So I'm subsector of the BIP. Okay.
I was just curious So I would not like of the ones we mentioned we don't hold the BIP or back and bop I don't I don't like I think a BIP is overvalued and I think BEP has a serious red flag with the PEB and negative so I don't even suggest those but they are like really Good if you read all the utility people that like the the subscriptions that just specialize in utility stocks They love these two for some reason but according to you, I wouldn't know. Okay, just want to make that clear We're gonna get into the the fun ones how you like how you can make money with Utility stocks like a lot of people say that they don't make enough money. I think they're full of caca UGI That's one that's local to us around here.
And then the Pennsylvania in New York is they deal with propane and natural gas? They have a six point three three percent yield with 36 years of dividend growth dang 8.05 PE Versus I think the 16 so it's like half on the value is the 16 and 16 It says 38 percent undervalued. Do you need your glasses? Sixteen point eight two percent profit margin. So it's okay 31 percent five-year dividend growth 18% five-year revenue growth and it has a only has a 52 percent payout ratio UGI is like a really good company.
I like it. I just haven't got into it yet Because I don't have funds for it. I have all my stuff tied up.
That's a total valid excuse My favorite utility stock. I'm gonna say it's a last it's like my absolute favorite and like I don't know why just like you eat Your food. Yeah, so then you have a rise in For whatever reason that's a utility stock, even though it's in telecoms, but Verizon's utility stock.
It has a six point nine percent yield 19 years of dividend growth a 7.77 PE Versus the industry average of 40.62. So it's vastly undervalued. It says 30, but I don't even think that's right I think it's probably 40 or 50 percent undervalued at least fifteen point nine three percent profit margin 9.4 percent five-year dividend growth four percent five-year revenue growth and 52.5 percent payout ratio like so if You are looking for a dividend stock that's reliable and you're pretty much one of the blue chippers Isn't it guaranteed to make money? well, they had that lead problem last year like they like I don't know if you follow the news, but AT&T and Verizon both like they had a Lead on their their fiber optic cables fiber optic cables and like it caused a problem Everyone's like oh my god lead. So like their stock just tanked its face off.
I think AT&T got hit with that too, right? I just said that Verizon and AT&T. Oh, sorry. That didn't sound that way when you said it I know we mentioned that before now the AT&T has a better yield But it it's actually has a higher PE less profit margin less dividend growth So I like actually like Verizon over AT&T.
I was gonna ask you why that one's not on here as a comparator So I would like I would pick up like if you like if you picked up Verizon and usually I right there you have a six point What is that 5% yield for two stocks, that's not that's pretty good for utilities That's not terrible terrible terrible. And now the oil and gas one has a irregular dividend. So if you Rely on your income You should never get into one that has irregular dividends That means like they'll pay like one year they paid like six dividends and another year they pay like one dividend So like you never know what you're getting with it.
Oh, that's really scary. That's bad for the but it had like it is Conservative people in my opinion one of the better oil and gas utility companies. That's a PBR.
It's a Petro Petro Barrows or something like that from Brazil like it's literally Brazil's a condom like it's Brazil's state ran gas and oil. What's that beer PBR? Is it PBR? Perhaps blue ribbon. Yeah.
Yeah. Okay, so that I'm not hallucinating that those those letters sounded familiar to me So it has an eighteen point two two percent yield, but that again, it's irregular So you don't like it one year. It could be 18% another year.
It could be 2% You never know 25.6% profit margin 3.78 PE and the industry average is at 12 around there like 11.7 or something like that 38% five-year revenue growth now, here's where like you'll see the irregularity here It's had 21 regular dividends in five years and it's had 11 supplemental dividends in five years. So you have And I know and 2023 this one had nine dividends paid so there's this a monthly no, it's a quarterly it's irregular It's just well, it's just whatever because it's state ran like it's when they have extra money. They give us a zero shareholders Well, it's got 21 regular 60 60 months that puts it about a third So every three months every four months, but you have to sleep of the 21 Yeah, it had seven last year seven regulars and it had two specials.
So nine of those just were in one Sounds like oil PBR oil not the beer is booming. Well that way it is booming like they are it that's why I It's on the list. Like it's to my opinion.
It's like the best ran Oil and gas one because it is the state ran oil and gas company in Brazil and Tim is not very Likely to recommend a lot of oil stocks because we've been in quite a few that have done some really wonky stuff Did you figure out why that happens? We're next on mobile I know but didn't wasn't there one where it like reverse stock split or did some crazy the USO it was The United States oil. Okay, and like we were in it and they basically just said we're gonna take We're gonna do a reverse reverse stock whenever Well, I got into it like the if you recall a couple years back oil was negative So I bought I put a few I think I put like a thousand dollars into US When negative when the oil was negative and we got into it and everything was looking good like oil was up to $30 and we were up a lot and then it did a reverse stock split to just wipe out all of Our profits late literally like we had like I think we had I want to say 200 shares and then I went into the account and we had 20 so it took away a hundred and eighty shares And for in the price stayed the same so like we literally just literally just waved the wand and wiped away the profits It's paid by share per dividend, right? Yeah, that's how they got around paying dividends I said, all right F you guys So I I sold it there for I think we actually took a loss on even though we were up by Hundreds of dollars. I don't like when they manipulate things and that does seem to be more common in the oil ones Which is why he does not recommend them very often I do not now my favorite my favorite utility is a BKH.
It's Black Hills electric company in South Dakota Wyoming and Colorado it only has a four point six seven percent yield It's thirteen point eight PE versus the industry average of sixteen point oh nine So it's a little bit undervalued fifteen percent undervalued around there Ten point six two percent profit margin and nineteen percent five-year dividend growth thirty one percent five-year revenue growth and It's sixty four point seven seven percent payout ratio. The reason I like this one is it has 53 years of dividend growth It's literally increases dividend 53 years in a row and I like that. It's Black Hills That's supposed to be a real pretty area on now you notice like if you listen to the podcast, you know, we had the reach and like the information was different than when we did the BDC is the reason I have the information set up this way utilities like their whole Like purpose I guess is just to do dividend increases That's how they like because they suck you in with the dividend year after year after year increase not with the initial yield Like if you're holding Black Hills and you'd held it for five years.
You literally are looking at I don't know seven or eight percent yield Even though you start at four point six seven And then if you go back up to any P if we hold that one for five years The yield could be close to twenty percent because of that forty six percent five-year dividend growth Yeah, that was one of the concepts that I misunderstood when I first started looking into this dividend approach and I was like Why is everybody so all over the blue chip at the four percent three percent? It's because as you hold them over time and your shares compound, whatever your lowest Your average buy-in prices is actually the price that you use to calculate your yield not the current yield Over time as things trend up. I think we did mention this Back, I forget what episode because there's been so many of my don't I apparently I talk a lot Whatever you buy a stock you like don't Rely on what your brokerage is saying like if you say you spent fifteen hundred dollars on Verizon and it got you I don't know. We'll say Sixty shares or something like that.
I don't know. I'm just guessing you in your spreadsheet You'll put down sixty shares bought and fifteen hundred dollars sent spent and that's your number because when it reinvest that that's irrelevant who the hell cares what that like because your cost basis is gonna go up and What you're worried about is the sixty shares that you initially bought with the fifteen hundred dollars that you initially spent Do you actually keep it all the original the original you don't continue to increase the no cost basis No, it doesn't keep that in a separate that spreadsheet because at the end like when I go back and do calculations I look at how many shares we currently own Versus no, I look when I what I do is like when I'm doing my spreadsheet I'll take the current value times than the amount of shares we have but my initial investment is all I'm concerned with That's how I determine the return Like for example, like we just got a Trinity. Um, I think I just realized a disconnect when we were both trying to make a chart We got our TRIN Reinvestment today and it was like 11 shares like there's 11 shares in that 100 some dollars it doesn't apply to my initial investment because it's not I actually didn't invest any more money But that's why it's broken.
So if you're looking for utility stocks, you want to look at dividend growth Profit margin PE versus their competitors and you want to look at their payout ratio I mean you should be looking at all these for pretty much every income investment you go and but specifically for Utilities, but you want to make sure that they have a pretty decent growth like Verizon's like Verizon's is 9% and that's that's kind of okay, I guess And like the red flag on Verizon is that with that 4% five-year revenue growth that means in five years It only grew its revenue by 4%. Yeah, that's not very much at all. That's not good Why the heck did we get into that one? Because it was so undervalued so undervalued like who the hell cares But that's what I'm saying.
You have to use common sense like okay Verizon, for example It doesn't it doesn't generate much revenue year over year, but it's like 50% undervalued So even if it do keep the revenues irrelevant at that point because you're getting a 50 like a 50% off It's like if you were buying it closing the fund and it was 20% discount Yeah, I was actually gonna compare it to Chipotle when they have one of those. Um, what are those freaking food-borne illnesses? They always talk about the ones with the lettuce Salmonella, so this happens all the time with Chipotle and other restaurants But Chipotle usually is the one you see because it's a big stock food place But it'll be like up real high and then some lettuce gets contaminated and like everybody freaks out across the board for the stocks Even though only a few locations are affected and you know It's eventually gonna go back up because it's one of those trend stocks Verizon's very very similar to that in my opinion. So they had lead in the cables.
I assume they dealt with it or This is exactly like okay now how we have we always say we have we mitigate risk in our portfolio We'll take some risks on flyers that pay like 15% Well anytime I get into something that pays like 15% that's kind of iffy I'll pick up one of these so you get a 15% yield or a 16% yielder and then you pick up like a I don't know a 5% Reliable ones you have you're getting 10% yield one super reliable one could be okay one or maybe it won't be okay Who knows but that's how I mitigate the risk. I don't like if I spend 5,000 and say ECC I'll spend 5,000 in Verizon and that's how I mitigate the risk. That's how I always mitigate the risk Totally makes sense to me But utilities like if you just if you bought if you invested in any P Verizon and UGI your yield would be 8% That's three awesome That's really good.
And that's a really good return on investment for the utilities The reason I say every income investing portfolio needs to have utilities is because of the consistent year-over-year dividend increase These efforts always Raise their dividends if you grab if you get the right one Well, and it's a sector to where everybody's gonna use utilities like utilities are a necessity That's why it's recession proof and when the market goes down like the price might go down a little bit but it won't go down near as much as the whole like the whole market does because They're always gonna be generating income. Well, and that was why I asked about utilities because they're they're a better Recession play, but we're probably going into a bull run in 2024 Slammed last year more important about 2024 Then the market going in a bull run is the interest rates are being lowered So they're probably gonna refinance their debt at a lower interest rate and they're probably gonna ladder it so it's more appropriate So they're not spinning. So it actually should push these up even during a bull run the interest These are really sensitive to interest rates but they're not sensitive like REITs are sensitive interest rates because REITs are sensitive because they're like buying and doing mortgaging and they're leveraging and these are sensitive because They have borrowed or they will borrow and they use it for infrastructure and the infrastructure is going to be at a higher interest rate So like these have a different reason why they interest rates affect them compared to REITs.
It's subtle difference It's not like oh, well, there's the reasons to like REITs are so much different There's just subtle difference these ones borrow a lot to build stuff But when you're building stuff, you're gonna be incurring fees and paying like I don't know if you've ever built anything but like the permit fees and You have to pay the talent. Like I guess the state gets their taxes and licenses So like like so they're getting they're getting like triple dung or triple stung triple dung Yeah, you got trouser snakes and dung on the head they're getting hit like three or four times They're getting hit by because they're borrowing money at a higher rate. Whammy is what I would call it You're getting hit because they're borrowing money at a higher rate But then they were paying like 16 different fees to buy their suit to build their infrastructure So they're super super sensitive to interest rates if interest rates are low.
They're still gonna get stung by the License and the fees and the taxes, but they can actually offset that with Lower interest rates interest rates because they never lower the prices for their goods Yeah, and if you look at your electric bills over time, like they don't ever lower rates No, but that's like you should have utilities. They're awesome. And that is the end of what I have for that.
I Think you think well if you turn the page you went the wrong way. Yeah, Duke Energy is like a Duke's another one That's an energy company. It has 97 years of dividends It's been paying a dividend for 97 years and it has like a dividend Increase for like 12 or 13, I guess Cove it messed it up and like it stopped or something like that Duke Duke the UK Sounds like an NPW problem. NFG has 53 years of dividend increases I mean like if you actually ever to have if you're bored and like you're a nerd like me just go look at like the The dividend increase streaks in the utility sector and you'd be like, well, why doesn't everyone just invest in utilities? It's cuz they're not flashy People want those like growth stocks not dividend like Chevron has 36 years KD which is another Electric company has 49 years of dividend increases.
It's it's insanity. That's pretty crazy So I put them up in the Kings aristocrats 25 really need to learn that freakin breakdown of status champions champion is like 50 I think the achiever or something like that's 10 chamber. I forget what that's super lame I forget what the 10 to 20 is, but I'm an achiever.
Yes, but utilities are all undervalued I had did not come across one that was overvalued except for that Yeah a bit that the VIP and BEP. They're both kind of overvalued for the price But I don't like those so I don't really look at them. But all the ones I was looking at to Piece this together.
I was like, dude, they're all undervalued. So why were those two on the list if they're Just because they're a good company. It was like the all the boxes you were analyzing They just happen to have more boxes ticked.
They they checked every box, but one. Okay, so what is this a top six? Well, it's time for two little hybrids you three four or five. Yeah top six with the offshoots So he couldn't just do three on this one either I could have done 30 Way too much way too much way too much way too boring way too much data to for these These poor people though to listen to you because I mean, I know it's boring I apologize, but utility stocks are boring but boring is beautiful sometimes And all the data is there for you to decipher and pick which ones that you want to get into Okie-dokie.
I think that's gonna wrap up. We're gonna keep this short since it is kind of like mind-numbing We were out removing snow all day, so I'm not feeling it and I'm tired I gotta get on my plane tomorrow, even though you'll be listening to this probably when I'm on my way back from Greece So there's going to Greece. I'm gonna be here by myself.
I don't know what I'm gonna do hookers and Valium You got three cats to take care of I do got three cats take I'm gonna go to the gym a lot So I'll be a lean mean basketball machine basketball machine with the snake in me trouser I Don't know what is wrong with you? All right. So the next one we're gonna do is But the credit card one something to do with traveling because I'll be getting back from Greece and I'll probably be all excited about Yes, probably. So it's probably going to be a step away from Monotony straight income investing is gonna be a way for you to actually Find a little more money make money or save money while traveling or traveling You can actually apply it to you even your normal shopping Like if you get like a Discover card, you can just or if you have a Discover card Just use your points and get money back for going to putting your groceries on your Discover card that you would be buying Anyways, and then you get cash back.
So we'll probably talk about cash back Leveraging cash back and stuff. It'll be real boring. Should we do must talk? Oh my god, so you guys will be like, oh look we get to listen to the girl today I will probably some Greek stories cuz Tim Tim and I were there five years ago.
And that was that was really fun It was fun. It's a fun country. It gets a bad rap because they all have RBF and I'm okay with that because Let me do what I want to do Basically, like once you get outside the main cities, there's like no rules.
It's like the Wild West. It's awesome And I think we spent we were there for two weeks and we spent almost the entire time other than I think like two days Outside of Athens. So we were like literally running up cliff sides with goats while like Random people were staring at it.
So like we're what are you doing places that most people don't visit and you could tell most people Don't visit because we were looking there were so many people that didn't speak English and there were so many people They're like, are you a medic and we're like, yes, and they're like We don't get many of you out here. Yeah, but that one guy was so funny but what that's like what we how we travel like I like to Be myself, but like respectful ish kind of so that like say We're not I'm just saying it can reply it can apply to anyone we were in Texas like I mean like they have certain Unwritten rules that I followed even though I found them stupid because that's their unwritten rule But like once you're out in the middle of nowhere and they're not around you like well that rules stupid and screw that rule But in Greece the best part about Greece is they only have two lanes on the road? but like they have a wide shoulder and if you're like Barrels up on your you just like driving the shoulder and they pass you Yeah It's like an just a common like I guess courtesy where if you're driving slower than people coming up behind you you kind of just like go over the line on The one side and people just like go around you with no questions asked except for Athens Athens is chaos Some people like that, but I do not that was the biggest city I've ever seen and it was disgusting It was pretty crazy. We climbed up Mount like like a bodice And you I could literally not even see the end of where the house is stopped It was so gross not every part of it was disgusting so it was kind of Athens yuck or cities or cities in general, but Athens especially yuck Meat trouser snake went bye-bye Oh All right, so that's what you will get next week That's a good next week.
If you haven't signed up for the email sign up the email. It's coming out On that comes out every Monday and it's full chock full of goodies And there's time sensitive information if you're looking for a good time to get in any of the stuff we're talking about every week there's a Chart, that's my my top 10 stocks going next dividend for the coming week for the week Horizon was on there any P was on there any E was on there? I think BK should probably be on there whenever it comes time But like what I do is I'd like to basically with the same data I used here is how I apply to all my dividend stocks I make sure the PE is less than its peers and I make sure it's undervalued and I make sure it has good payout ratio But it's it's good. It's good information to help you Pick and choose like what's good and like the goods not always Under 10% but there's sometimes the good is like 16 or 18 percent it's a good way to get some training wheels on if you're new to this whole thing where Tim will give you like a Selection of stuff to look at and he kind of pre selects and tells you if he'd get in based on You know valuation and stuff and you learn about me I am effed up.
Apparently I have OCD tendencies in certain regards. You're not as bad as you used to be and I'm blunt Oopsie I think his humor comes out in the emails. You guys have a good night.
We'll see you next week. I'm done